Why No Energy with Subutex?

Question posted by Thor283 on 28 Nov 2011

Last updated on 18 December 2011

The generic Subutex that is. I just read a question by a person who uses Suboxone mainly for the energy boost. And many of you here have been honest enough to admit you also got an energy boost from Sub. And quite honestly when I was on the NB Subutex from 2005 - 2009 I always got an energy boost from Subutex too. Then I was taken off Sub and put on short acting opiates for a year and then I came back to Subutex. I then started with these generics. I was driven off 2 other boards for complaining that these generic Subutex don't give an energy boost. The people on those boards weren't as honest as you all are. They actually seemed afraid to admit they got an energy boost from Sub. I wasn't saying I only wanted it for the energy boost. But if that's 1 of the side effects that properly made Buprenorphine does, then I want it.

Now I'm going to be completely honest. NB Subutex used to give me an energy boost, help greatly with my depression, kept away most of my excessive anxiety, and I never ever wanted any other drug, not even a beer or a glass of wine. I didn't want to take anything that might effect how beautifully I felt with NB Subutex, and all I took was 5 mg a day. Now with the generics, I need Provigil almost daily to have energy. I take Wellbutrin again or I become depressed, and Wellbutrin also gives me some energy. I seem to need a Benzo 4 or 5 times a week for anxiety, which I don't have. So I live in a constant state of anxiety. Last but not least, I drink a few beers several times most weeks. I do that mostly for the anxiety, but it doesn't work because Sub blocks alcohol. So I ask myself, what good are these generic Subutex actually doing? And my answer is, I don't know. They keep me out of wds.

And now they have stopped making NB Subutex. At least we think so. For the past 5 months I've been trying to figure out a way to get back on NB Subutex and now it isn't going to exist anymore? My doc doesn't know.

Btw, I don't take Suboxone because when I first went on Sub it was Suboxone and my feet, then ankles, and lower legs swelled like balloons and the docs didn't know what to do. So I'm afraid to take Suboxone again.

I'm just very frustrated.

Added 29 Nov 2011:

This question was meant to spur a discussion on the various beneficial side effects of Buprenorphine. I'm calling them side effects only because the "Powers that Be" refuse to acknowledge them as being primary effects of the drug. There is a lobby effort in Washington to get Buprenorphine approved as an anti depressant when all other conventional drugs and forms of treatment has failed. There is currently a scientific study being done with humans, but in this man's opinion the study was designed in such a way as to fail. The "powers" who don't want to see Bupe approved for depression are strong. Instead of being about good medicine and science, this is about prejudice, and stereotyping, done by people with closed minds. But this is the way many controversial breakthroughs must be made.

Another thing I hoped to do was start a discussion on why generic Buprenorphine is not the equivalent of the Name Brand, and why has the NB now been removed from the market. A similar issue is the promotion of Suboxone film strips, while Suboxone tablets are being made to look unusable. I don't know much about these issues, and this is what I wanted us to discuss. So maybe, hopefully we still can.

Answer this question

4 Answers

pup6767 7 Dec 2011

To midnight... I am unsure how you can even construe that Thor is hiding something from his post. it is only one post for which you have seemingly read. Yes this forum is about helping people, each other... however, in the process, we can become friends. There is no written or unwritten rule that says that we cannot be friends here. Folks here have been tremendously helpful to me... I could not have done what I have accomplished without their support. Friendships DO occur here... I mean Robert325 met his wife here... not that this is a dating service... but things like this COULD happen... it is certainly not why people come here... they come here for help... but it is cool I think when friendships do ensue.

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Now... as Pattishan said... I also want to tell you that I am not trying to be rude... I am just trying to add some reality. I truly hope that you will be able to soften up a little. There are many people who are hurting deeply that are on this site... some have no friends for whatever reason, many are lonely... if they develop a friendship here... hey what is wrong with that? On other sites there may not be those who understand the problems that are discussed here.
Yes we all do need to be careful and very judicious about sharing personal info with people before we truly have an idea that the person with whom we befriend is a safe person... there are whackos everywhere of whom we need to be careful and cautious.
So please understand and be a little soft. I am so proud of the group that we have here and I care about so many here. As patti said Thor shares all and gives it his all... please do not judge him from only one post... he was one of the first who came to my aid when I was so very desolate. He is an individual who is worthy of care and concern... he is extremely intelligent... he can be misunderstood, I suppose, at times... but I do know him to be a good and caring individual.
Thank you for listening. Welcome to the site. I hope I have given you some constructive insight... be well...

Votes: +4

lady from T.O. 8 Dec 2011

I'm with you Pup on this one. I wrote a similar 'letter' to midnight under the comments heading.

this forum has been so useful, helpful and it is because the folks here are ready to lend a helping hand, some information, much through experience, and some through hours of research.
Hope you're doing well, too!

tlcandmore 8 Dec 2011

Great response Pup and Lady too. I have found so much here. This site is a great source of information but also support and compassion!! I love it and I love you guys. If that offends anyone I am sorry but for me I cherish you all.
Big hugs to all

pup6767 8 Dec 2011

Back to you Terri... I feel the same way!!! Maybe midnight will feel our love and care and some of that toxic anger will be dawn out and filled with love care and concern!!! Love to all

View all 3 comments

lady from T.O. 7 Dec 2011

I am getting confused, again!

You're talking about Subutex and NOT Suboxone, is that right?

Can you not get Suboxone anymore?

Larsy: Are you/were you an opiate addict? If so, how would you be able to take your hydro without going off the deep end again?

I am reading more about people taking Subutex, and maybe Suboxone (?) for depression, is that why you're taking them?
Are they supplementing the Subutex with anything similar?
This is all very confusing to me.
I live in Canada, and haven't heard any of this happening up here, at least not yet. What does the 'health/help' community community expect people like us to do now? Do you know WHY they're being taken off the market?

I know I've asked more questions, that answered the question originally asked. I am stumped!

in G*d speed.

Thor283 7 Dec 2011

Renee,

Yes, we're talking about Subutex, not Suboxone. Both of us had problems with Suboxone, which I explained to you in a pq. You never answered me, nor did you acknowledge receiving them.

You can't exactly take Sub, either Subutex nor Suboxone, for depression only because our dear FDA will not approve it's use for depression. That means insurance doesn't have to cover it. The doc must say he's treating you for addiction, and from what I see, most doc's believe we're all drug seeking addicts anyway. So you go to a doc and regardless of what you say, he feels he's treating you because you're addicted, plain and simple. Nevertheless, you are right that more and more ppl are admitting Bupe helps their depression. But remember, one characteristic of addicts is we supposedly lie constantly about everything. So doc's don't know whether or not to believe us.

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They figure this is our latest BS to make them give us an opiate. And I hate to say that.

No, we don't yet know why NB Subutex is not available. When my pharmacist punches it into his PC to attempt to order it, the PC says Not Available. He did it in front of me. I'm hoping it's just back ordered because I do want to be back on it. One of the things the NB does that the generics do not do, is to reduce anxiety. I now live in an almost constant state of anxiety. My F'ing doc won't give me more than 10 Benzo's a month. With NB Bupe that was plenty. Moe than enough for most months. But not with generic Bupe. I need a new doc but I don't have money to keep going to docs hoping I'll find one who treats anxiety with Benzos. They surely exist because I did have 1, and so do many ppl here. I need one too.

I guess the rest of your questions were specific to Larsy.

Larsy1966 7 Dec 2011

Hi Thor:)

I need to answer this question because I feel like I have a lot I can add to it and I find it very interesting. My first question to you is when you were taken off the subutex and put on another opiate (was it hydrocodone or vicodin) and mainly how did you feel for that year (emotionally and physically)? I was put on subutex for depression and now that they are not making it anymore my doctor wants me to take hydrocodone. He says it will take about 3-5 days to work. Thank you Thor:)

Votes: +1

Thor283 7 Dec 2011

Larsy,

Go on the Vicodin and detox off them. It's what you want and nothing else will satisfy you. I think I know you well enough to say that. Besides, you're down to 2 mg a day of Sub, so you shouldn't need much Hydro like you would have before. And since you have a doc who's going to help you do it now. Before he changes his mind.

It would be nice if you come back and let us know how it went. I certainly would like to know, and there are probably many ppl here who read but don't post, and they need to know. So tell us how it goes.

Larsy1966 7 Dec 2011

I'm just so afraid because once I take one and if it doesn't work I'm in trouble for 3-4 days. I won't be able to take the subutex without going into withdrawal. I am so upset about subutex being discontinued. This is scary especially with Christmas right around the corner. I just want to know if I'm going to need to take a lot of pills to keep it working (if it does work) and if I'm going to get severely depressed. I'm so scared Thor. I'm so sorry. You must not have felt too good for that year or you wouldn't have gone back to the subutex or maybe I'm wrong. This is a nightmare calling every pharmacy to see if they still have any name brand subutex or the teva brand which they are telling me the teva brand is on back order until the end of January if I'm lucky. I hope I'm not driving you crazy. Thank you so much for your help. Laura xx

Thor283 7 Dec 2011

Laura,

It's not that you're driving me crazy, because I know what it means to be scared, confused, not knowing what to do, and finally feeling strung out. I've been there and I know I can be there again, and not just with Subs and opioids. However, I am upset that you never answered my 2 pqs. I have also explained to you privately what I think will happen because it happened to me. But what happened to me doesn't make sense, so many ppl and not just here, but on several other sites have said I'm wrong. GOOD. I want to be wrong. Someone please prove I'm wrong with experience, not theories on how Sub should work. I'm waiting.

I no longer have a speedy Internet connection. I think you do. Go find a narcotic conversion chart that includes Bupe, and you can see how much Hydro equals 2 mg of Bupe. I mean that. Do it when you're done here and tell me. I like to know these things. I'll guess at 25 - 50 mg of Hydro.

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Now what does it mean, 3 to 5 days to work? What does that mean? Does he mean after 3 - 5 days you will feel the Hydro, and feel what, buzzed, no more wds, pain relief, etc. Or does he mean in 3 - 5 days you'll be off everything and doing well? I don't know what you mean? Based on my experience, you should get pain relief in that time. Again, based on my experience and not theories, you will probably need at least as much as the conversion charts say, but you will need some every 2 or 3 hours otherwise you'll be uncomfortable with wds. I can't seem to stand wds so if you're like me, you're going to take more than he said, and in much less time than he says. Finally, when he and you, expect your dose of Hydro to go down, instead it will go up. So the whole taper off using Hydro plan won't work. Not unless you want to be in very long wds. They may be milder than doing a CT, but you will still have them.

But you see Laura, everyone says I'm wrong, because based on theories of how Bupe ought to work, none of this makes sense. I know that. But it's what happened to me.

In the year I was off Sub I wasn't so miserable when I was on Oxycodone, but I was kinda miserable on MsContin. I think me and Morphine are a bad match. As I approached the 1 year mark my tolerance for Oxy went higher than the doc could give me. He could give me more MsContin, but not Oxy. Maybe if I could have had more Oxy it wouldn't have made me feel like I wanted to end my life. But more MsContin did cause that and finally I tried. You can see how well it worked. Guess it wasn't my time to go. Now when I look back on all that, I realize 1 reason I became so depressed was because the anti depressant effects of Bupe finally wore completely off. Now I'm back on Bupe, and I no longer make plans to exit the Earth.

But you, Laura, all you tell me is you feel like shit on Bupe, even the NB. Not me. I do worry about several things and nationwide drug shortages are 1 of them. But you say the opposite. You say you only feel OK on Hydro. In my mind what you're saying is you're not content to feel just OK and normal, but that you want the Hydro high. You want that great feelings where you feel warm and cozy all over, and you couldn't care less about problems. That's the euphoric mu high and it's what got most of us to be on Sub. You refuse to believe that feeling is gone, and maybe forever, due to what Bupe does. You also say this isn't quite right. OK, I believe you. I don't know what else to tell you because you keep saying you feel like shit on Bupe. Right now you have a doc who will supply you with all the Hydro you need to get off Bupe, so then do it. You can always come back to Bupe in 1 form or another. You have told me what you want is to be back on Hydro so many times I don't understand why you're even asking anyone? Not me or your expert you listen to. I just don't get it.

So if you were driving me crazy I would have given you a 1 line answer. Maybe you just need to be off all opiates. So then do that. Use Hydro because this is what you said you wanted.

I still say, let me know what happens. Remember, I want to be proven wrong.

Larsy1966 9 Dec 2011

I'm just so scared and wish we could talk like live

View all 4 comments

midnightcowboy 28 Nov 2011

Depending on the application form, buprenorphine is indicated for the treatment of moderate to severe chronic pain (pain that has outlasted its use to prevent injury and after three months) or for peri-operative analgesia.

A clinical trial conducted at Harvard Medical School in the mid-1990s demonstrated that a majority of unipolar non-psychotic patients with major depression refractory to conventional thymoleptic antidepressants could be successfully treated with buprenorphine.

Subutex and Suboxone are treatments for the withdrawal symptoms of opiate addiction but other treatment is still needed.

Buprenorphine (pronounced bew-pre-nor-feen) is available by prescription, under the name of Subutex, as a treatment for heroin dependence.

A few snippets from various web sites. No mention at all of energy boost.

I should add that your statement that you are now going to be completely honest tells me you hide information and do not give the full story. Therefore you cannot expect a decent answer.

Votes: +1

Inactive 28 Nov 2011

midnite, I know you are new here, but please don't judge Thor. He has been a great member of our support team for nearly a year. If you go back and read his post, you will see he hides nothing, he adds info that might be needed later. Since I do know him, I will say he actually is trying to help out another person with this answer. They mentioned energy from subs. I certainly am not trying to be rude at all and I hope you don't take it that way. welcome to our site. It is a support group for those asking questions about subone, subutex, butrans, opiate dependency, opiate withdrawal, etc. Although am pretty sure you meant to be helpful, most who send questions hewill not understand the excerpts, that's why we answer in everyday language. Thor is really very intelligent, he will understand the excerpts, but assure you, most won't. Just wanted to clarify what we do here, we don't judg and we do try to be supportive and helpful. I apologize if I have offended u in anyway. Gotta stick up for my friend Thor, a caring smart gentleman. Pattishan61

midnightcowboy 28 Nov 2011

Thank you for your comment. No offence taken at all, But I must say it was his words that brought the observation. That's all. I have no interest in hurting anyone and seek only truth for and from people. If they choose to hide things then how can anyone help?

Trying to defend or protect someone because they are a "friend" is a big mistake for any of us to make. We must rely on what THEY say, not what we think we know of them. He is capable of saying what you did so please let HIM do so,if it matters to him at all, not you speaking for him.

These forums are not about "friends". They are about helping people, only. Anything else belongs on other forums.

lady from T.O. 28 Nov 2011

Welcome cowboy

hope you'll keep coming back-we have a fabulous group of folks here who are knowledgeable and, like Patti said, not judgmental. I understand when you're new here you'll soon learn to know many, of not most, speak from care, experience and understanding. I know what Thor has gone through on other sites and how this forum is so refreshing that we can say anything and not get 'called up' on it-and the same goes for you with your observation. It is good for you you said what was on your mind. As you can see from the responses thus far, we do allow for opinions as long as a person is not being malevolent.
keep coming back cowboy

and hello to you, Patti and Thor "master'!

Inactive 28 Nov 2011

Thanks for not being angry. Thor has had some be not so nice to him on other forums, and at first when he came here, he thought I was some evil tormentor who was following him and trying to harrqss him. This is the only forum I am on and of course we got it sorted out. I just know a bit more about his situation since he has been here a while. He normally sends very detailed posts and know quite a bit about how subs works in the brain. We have had a small explosion of subs questions this holiday weekend and maybe I was just a bit tired from trying to field so many of them. People on methadone who obtained subs from... ahem... unlicensed freelance pharmaceutical supply people, thinking they could just start it no problem. People jumping off and wondering why they were in withdrawal 6 days later. It literally has been a madhouse. If I didn't know better, I would swear it was a full moon.

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And I do have a very sick room mate who is older, mentally and physically, and sick with a number of conditions, and at 4 o'clock central time, they tell me he has to have a colostomy. I am a bit freaked put to say the least. Anyway, thank younger not being mad, I swear, I am pretty nice as are all the others. You'll like it here and we do need help, so welcome to the site. Patti

midnightcowboy 29 Nov 2011

Hello again you two,

There is no place for anger at anyone who seeks help. If anyone wants to do that then they should go to Facebook etc. Not for me at all, it's a big part of why we are all depressed really isn't it? Unnecessary anger and provocation just for the hell of it. I don't accept that from anyone these days but I do not do it to others, well on FB I do, but not on these sites.

Could I ask that you desist with the "you're new" comments as I find them terribly defensive and annoying. I am not new to this site at all, just haven't used it much. And I am certainly not new to depression and meds forums. Been writing on them since 2000 so, give the "newbie" speeches a miss hey? We'll get on much better if you just accept people as they are without trying to get them into some sort of clique. That style does anger me as it is harmful and I will not be a part of it.

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I don't come to make friends, I come to help, only. If I write things you like, say so. If I don't, say so. That's what matters, what a poster is asking for and the replies they get.

lady from T.O. 29 Nov 2011

cowboy:
you have nothing to be concerned about.

runnermom56 29 Nov 2011

Hi all! Welcome to new and hello to old posters and readers! THOR. I want to share my experience while on suboxone, with you... having been on it since 2005 and having jumped off at 1mg just 76 days ago. I have not had experience with subutex, so you can take my post or leave it... no problemo. I DID get an energy boost from suboxone. At first, I didn't notice it, I mean, back when I finally got off pain meds and on sub, I was so grateful to feel "normal" on the sub..but after I maintained, and when I tapered lower, I did notice my energy level decrease..I was also told by my sub dr that opiates, in one form or another, were used as antidepressants, before we had the current anti d's we have now. Makes sense to me..I know when I jumped off sub I was depressed..(altho I am sure the w/ds had something to do with it) :) now I am talking pure experience..not professional PHD info here..just info from one sub patient to another.

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If your generic is not working for you, personally, I would speak to my dr and ask to switch? Maybe TRY suboxone again if you can. It's all about YOUR well being, my friend, and we'll support you anyway we can. I hope my experience helps you..or makes you smile ::)
hugs to all!!!
runnermom

midnightcowboy 29 Nov 2011

Indeed you are right Runner Mom,

Opiates were used as anti depressants until the 1950's. They were replaced by anti depessants for one very obvious reason.

Opiates are addictive and could cause more problems than the depression. So, no they are not used as such today. They are for chronic pain and yes, relieving chronuic pain can help relieve the depression at least somewhat. But the issue of addiction still persists and one must be careful when using such meds. I use Tramal for chronic pain and it is a very mild opiate but very helpful, but not for my depression at the current level.

I raise this issue with my shrink every now again, saying that they do have drugs they could give us that would make us feel good, real happy pills, but they won't due to addiction and society's attitude to those drugs.

Sucks.

Thor283 29 Nov 2011

Hey Mid,

I am very offended by you. Nothing you said is correct in how it relates to me.

Everyone was very nice to you. Lucky you. Learn to listen, and not to speak. And then in 10 or 20 years If I'm still on this planet, come and listen to me. And then you will start to really learn.

Thor283 29 Nov 2011

Hi RM,

Good to see you again. You do understand it's the Buprenorphine in Suboxone that gave you the energy boost and improved you mood, right. It was. And there is no good reason for why the generics shouldn't do this also, especially since the pharmacists and the doctors have been so indoctrinated to believe generics are exactly the same as the name brands. They really aren't, and I'm having this problem with various drugs, including some for the heart. It's a really big problem when one month my pharmacy hands me a different generic of Cozaar (Blood Pressure med) and suddenly my pressure jumps up, and then we had to add another drug to the regime, and double the dose of yet another. But then 4 months later the generic brand is changed again, and now my BP is dropping so low that I feel faint. The doc's answer is live with it, and the pharmacist is saying it's my imagination. So Dr.

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Thor takes out his shingle, and starts to practice medicine on myself again, until I get my BP under control. This is a travesty of something, my friends. When docs and pharmacists are so brainwashed to believe all generics are equal, and all generics equal the name brands, and more and more patients are discovering this is not true. But that's why we pay the FDA to make sure it is true. And it isn't true. And with Bupe they may get away with blowing it off, but with drugs for the heart. The FDA should not look the other way with heart meds. So what now, we need a new government agency to watch the FDA??? LOL I laugh but it isn't funny. It actually short circuits my brain, as I'm not as young as I once was.

My other point, which I have explained in great detail else where is that unlike every other opiate, Bupe is not helping depression by stimulating the mu. It's doing it by shutting down the Kappa. And one thing Patti explains better than me is Bupe is not an up regulating opiate. So again using Bupe for depression is unlike using any of the other opiates. The problem with using Bupe for depression is mostly political, not medical. Before Bupe was mixed with Naloxone and classified as, for addiction only, Bupe had a good name. Now it's a drug meant for addicts, we are still seen as the low life of society. So society says how can a drug meant to help the lowly addict also help the CEO or Bank President, or a Senator with depression. Society says no, this can't be.

And this is 1 of my pet peeves. I'll stop for now. Today is not one of my better days. I have too many personal issues going on. So forgive my ranting.

runnermom56 29 Nov 2011

Hey Thor! Rant away..I will always listen :)
Until our President has an addiction problem the drugs used to treat us will give us a bad name..and an attitude from others that have never been down the path we have. I hear ya! I am the Nanny responsible for caring for the children of important members of society, I am a Mom, a Marathon runner, and an Army wife... not a lowlife addcit, but you should see the looksand attitudes I have gotten when fillng my RX for subs! I def hear ya Thor!
And as for generics..I agree on that too..I take ambien prn for insomnia and when the Army pharmacy substitues with a generic in the formulary,I can tell! By all means , I agree with you there too!
Glad you are having a good day my friend! I was wondering how you were doing.
Thanks for posting!
HUGS
runnermom

midnightcowboy 29 Nov 2011

Dear Thor,

Offended? What I did was gather together quotes from reputable drug sites describing this drug. So none of it was MY opinion at all, just that of expert sites who assess and summarise ALL drugs, not just one.

If you are offended, argue with them. Look it up yourself

A very sad and "cliquey" response indeed. If you are such an expert on this, why are YOU asking for help on knowing about it? Makes no sense at all mate.

You are reacting like a brat used to being able to say what he wants without fear of a rebuke. Sorry, that's unacceptable behaviour. In 10 ir 20 years you won't have the expertise I already have Thor. Or the ability to contain one's temper tantrums.

lady from T.O. 30 Nov 2011

We must remember to

TAKE WHAT WE NEED AND LEAVE THE REST

I am not going to go further into detail, for anyone, as I am sure this 'saying' is self explanatory.

midnightcowboy 30 Nov 2011

Good for you Lady from TO. This too is self explanatory.

Inactive 30 Nov 2011

midnightcowboy, you should heed the ladys advice. I use it daily. Live by it. Its my motto. So should you. It might help. Then again, it differs, from one to another. Welcome to the site. I've not had the pleasure, of introducing myself. My name is pledge. You are a new here? I've not seen your threads or posts. We are and come from all walks of life. Our diagnosis varies, but find common ground, through helping each other, as well as people seeking advice, opinions, help.

Inactive 30 Nov 2011

thor i agree with you ijust started the subutex 2 days ago but rite before i did i took a quarter of namebrand suboxone and felt wonderful with a headache but alive again, but since ive been taking the generic tex54411 i feel bad depressed,spacey no energy.i thght getting off opiates i would feel better but now i feel worse and have to work tom,not good cant even get out of bed or think clearly.

midnightcowboy 30 Nov 2011

Pledge,

If one took her advice no one would ever respond to anyone, on anything. Ergo, no forum. Good advice, not.

Your motto, good for you too. My motto? Don't take bullshit from anyone and don't accept lies and misinformation. There's way too much compliance and not enough questioning and challenging in our lives as it is. Don't live like the "normals" expect. Live as we are.

No I'm not new here at all. Just not very active. Here since June 2009.

We have common ground else we wouldn't be here. It's called depression, thus we don't need to stand on ceremony and explain how it feels as we know everyone else knows what it is like. Thus we must be able to be honest, open and upfront with each other without the degree of "cliques" I have experienced in the last week.

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People speaking on behalf of others when that is impossible. People who are offended by facts. Only a few so far seem to understand how these places should work and it's not to gather friends and gang up on others. That's schoolyard stuff for immature people who don't know much about life.

Inactive 30 Nov 2011

Not at all MidnightCowboy. I Take what I need and I leave the rest. Just as you do. Your being here, on this particular thread, is giving you whatever it might be. Your compliance regarding don't take bullshit from anyone serves you. Its not taking, and by not taking bullshit, you certainly are taking something, you're not taking bullshit. As to cliques, and questions and answers. thats why we have debates, therioies, (pardon my spelling english is not my primary language) but I digress, what you find not usefull and yes I said you, well fine. Its not in yourpoint of view, whatever it might be, not valid. So what? If I see the light as a green one, and you see it as red, no amount of huffing and puffing is going to change, that fact. What you deem , trival I might see as a major item. Another example you said you've not new. Well, yes you are to me.

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If you've haven't posted and I've never read anything by you, you've pposted what six , seven times, that relatively new. I'm a new person in your world. I've been here a long but new to you. Its all how you think and take things as you believe , and see not what I or this that or the other deems.

midnightcowboy 1 Dec 2011

Dear Pledge,

So you've been here a long time. Really, that tells me you haven't expanded your horizons mate. I move around for that very purpose, to learn more and meet more people who all have something to offer.

If you see the wrong colour light I would try to help you. Not just accept you will run a red light and kill either yourself or others. But you're saying your sight is valid even though it's dangerous. Wrong. We live in a society where what is said is taken in by others and it is NOT a matter of agreeing or disagreeing in most cases. It is a matter of knowledge versus ignorance.

To tell someone their depression should likely be gone soon is a false hope and not something anyone here can predict for another.

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Yet you say let that statement go unchallenged and let the poster believe that by doing nothing she too will "cycle out of depression". Many do just that, don't seek treatment and hope it will go away. Most common result is suicide. I won't stand by and watch such stuff be told to others but you apparently think it's fine. Good for you. You'd be one of those people who steps over someone passed out on the pavement too. Or turns your TV up when you hear screams outside wouldn't you? Just my opinion mate.

Thor283 1 Dec 2011

A wise man turns the tide with one word, but the fool just chatters on.

midnightcowboy 5 Dec 2011

Thor,

Cliches are just that. If you want silence in a forum then there is no forum.

Thor283 5 Dec 2011

That wasn't a cliche.

It's obvious at this point that you have grudges against certain people here. I don't think I was one of them, but you ruined what this question was about with your anger, so you have turned me against you too. This was a very serious question and only angel picked up on it. Everyone else is trying to help you. But now, many days after you showed up, it's obvious you are an ex-member of this board who probably left due to his feelings being hurt. You may have been banned but in that case you would need a new PC, and a new Internet connection to get past the ban. That may be in accurate, but I know if a web site bans you it is not easy to get in again. So you probably left and came back with all this rage, that you want to start trouble every where you can, and in every way you can.

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So far you have been lucky that the moderators haven't done anything about you. I wonder what will happen first. Will the moderators put an end to you, or will you get bored and leave. Whatever happens, I'm sure you will eventually find a way to come back and spew forth your venom.

You need some serious help.

Be Well.

midnightcowboy 6 Dec 2011

Thor,

Do read back on this thread and you'll find your first comment to me was "You offend me". yet I had only quoted reputable sites on the med you say you are expert on.

So, no I haven't carried grudges. You have. and it's way past time you stopped.

I had a thread called KNOWING. You and your "friends" used it to bash me. I asked for the thread to be removed as your crowd had hijacked it and used it for hate speech. Any memory problems? I hope not as this will be crystal clear to you.

Eventually I added a note in caps stating what your lot were doing and that you should all be banned etc. That thread was removed and none of you has attacked me since. I do not know what was done but the result is excellent. I currently don't have to deal with extraneous and irrelevant issues and can just help properly.

I repeat I don't carry grudges and am happy to help any of you involved if you feel a need. Now that it appears to have ceased.

lady from T.O. 7 Dec 2011

Hey, MidCow!

I know you don't give a rat's a$$, however, I see it being your 'tone' in your posts which are VERY off putting. The problem there is your message is lost as many don't want to read what you have to say because of this. This is, whether you want to admit, accept or agree, a social/help forum. Yes, we all come here for help. We also interact with one another for help through some difficult times on our Suboxone Treatment journey.
As for the 'friends' you so vehemently dislike, we 'friend' one another, so we can speak or ask private questions and answers.
No one is asking you to like this. When you put the rest of us down, for using this forum in the manner we have all found helpful is when I think a foot needs to be put down.
And I am putting my foot down now-to you.

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It would be very much appreciated if you kept your judgments and negativity towards how this forum works to yourself. Of course, if you can do so in a manner which is respectful of others, please come, share and get as much as you can. There is so much offered here.

I said it before and I'll say it again in reference to what I just wrote:
"take what you need and leave the rest".

Larsy1966 9 Dec 2011

I'm so scared most of the time to even reply here.

Inactive 19 Dec 2011

Hi Larsy - not sure if I got your name right (I can't see it once I am making a comment). You don't need to be afraid to post here on drugs.com. Please don't take the above comments to heart - they don't concern you, and you don't need to fear anything. It's very few people that post like midnightcowboy does, and it's clear that he has some issues. All this nonsense going back and forth is because of his attitude, and not directed to you. Please give us a chance here - there are a lot of really good people here that care - a lot! Don't let your experience here on this question keep you from commenting on other questions. I welcome you here and hope to hear from you again! Take care - ElizaJane

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