Why is generic norco m367 so weak?
Question posted by Anonymous on 25 Feb 2011
Last updated on 23 August 2022
38 Answers Page 3
M367 is a generic version of norco that sucks! I recently switched pharmacies and they game me these. I hate them. I've been on the yellow ones for a year. They dull my pain. Itchy nose and give me tons of energy. These white ones don't work for me at all. I'm so sick of people coming on here and "FDA" this and "FDA" that. "It's in your head" I call Bs! Bottom line every human is wired differently. They substitute binders and chemicals to save $$. How do I know this? I caught my pharmacist in a lie, and called her out on it. FDA is just as crooked as our politicians. I know my body and I know the discomfort I live with everyday. I've had to live with no relief for almost a month because the pills suck. Just google "m367 weak" ya that's right. I'm not the only one guess were all crazy. So hp ahead and believe what you read. Santa is real too right? Smdh.
I too have been taking the yellow norcos for about 8 years. My last 2 refills were the m367. They are NOT as effective as the yellow Watson's. I do not get the same relief as I had been getting and it is not in my head. As I understand it, the generics are allowed to be up to 10% off in total amount of active ingredients. That can explain the lesser amount of relief and could mean more profits for the manufacturer.
Ive been on norcos and/or vidodin for over 1 year. Ive come to the conclusion that different meds will affect different people different ways. If you dont get pain relief from a generic vs a brand name, it may work for me. (So far anways)
I noticed it was weak also. Something was wrong. Now my insurance company says I can only go to one place to pick up my medicines Safeway. I guess they allow the drug companies to discriminate against mom and pop Pharmacys . I just hate that. Not good for the people only for big companies. Insurance companies run the world.
I agree.I have degenerative disc disease,scoliosis,fibromyalgia plus.Im having to take more of these m367s than the yellow ones..They are alot weaker for sure!!I've been on many different kinds of pain meds for 15 years now.Im currently back on m367s..I have to take
many more of these a day to ease my pain.They are awful.I see there's alot of people that feel this way.Hopefully soon something will be done to correct this mistake/lie whatever they end up calling it! Its so wrong that we have to suffer more because why??Do they think it won't matter if people do complain of this?Of course it matters to us people that need these pain meds for REAL pain ¬ to just get high on!!I think this has something to do with all this!!
I can’t agree more. Been banged up from the service for many yrs n umpteen surgeries. Rx’ed pain med “oh, this will take care of it” BS! Been down that road with the med. I finally told Dr. my body is wired dif than others. They may work great on Bill but not worth a flip on Bob. The battles continues from 1996... keep on trucking!
I have been taking 10/325 brand name hydrocodone (yellow oblong) for 4 yrs. I take them for my degenerative disc disease in my back as well as osteoarthritis in both knees as well as peripheral neuoropathy and stage 4 osteoporosis. I recently had double lumbar fusion surgery about six months ago so I think I know a thing or two about PAIN... I recently tried to save a little money and get the generic 367 hydrocodone and i noticed a dramatic difference in the effectiveness... WHY???
I too take pain medication for chronic stenosis in my neck. Have been on Norco 10/325 for a couple of yrs now... usually I received the generic brand from Qualitest (yellow oblong pill). Worked great for managing my pain, strong enough, acted fast and lasted well. I recently went to another pharmacy (for a convenience this time) and was given the Mallickrodt M367 10/325 white oblong pill. Despite what the pharmacist says (who says its the same), there is a huge difference in the strength. The pill takes up to 2 hours to be effective and then its much less effective as well. Something in how the pill is manufactured makes a difference in the delivery of the medication... I do not like it at all.
I totally agree I have chronic pain and a list of issues.. when I recently went to pick my prescription up they changed to the generic ones u named above. . I have to take more than prescribed just to feel them. My pain level never goes below a six but the pharmacy keeps saying they are the same but I beg to differ... I think they are full of it..
I spent my career working in the chemical industry mostly in product development, but some in sales/marketing also. While developing a particular insecticide for particular crop I began to see a difference between two formulations that had the same amount of active ingredient per plant being dosed. Now I know there could be many factors involved in these differences including the formulation inactive ingredients, etc. But what I knew about the two products was two different sources of tech (active ingredient in it's purest form). And even more bizarre was that the two sources of tech started out as the same thing, but were treated differently before they were put into the formulation. The difference was that one was air milled and the other was ball or hammer milled . For sake of argument the air milled came out with particles from 2-5 microns diameter and the other milling process produced particles of tech in the 50-90 micron size, a major difference in size.
Guess which one was more effective at knock down (we're talking about insecticides) and lasted the longest (because more was systemic in the plant)? The air milled of course. And which one cost the most to manufacture because it was more time consuming and required more expensive equipment to make? Air milled again.
My guess on the difference between the two sources of 10/325, one is made as cheaply as possible (standard milling large tech particles) doesn't work as well as the air milled because more of the large particle size stuff passes thru your gut faster without completely dissolving (depends on how soluble it is in the media it is in somewhat). Or maybe they use 20% less as I read somewhere in this blog; I don't think you can get away with a 20% variation of a.i., you can't when you make generic insecticides, more likely way less than 1% variation.
I totally agree I have been taking Yellow Norco for years, wonderful pain relief. White Norco, substandard, doesn't work as well, short pain coverage!!
My mom is having this problem as well. The Mallinckrod M367 it is like there is only 1 mg in them. Sad thang is. If the pharmaceutical companies do this they actually get away with it. Who would believe us. They would say oh your tolerance it up. Oh that's not possible no one else has complained
The main difference between brand name and generic medications is that generics are legally allowed a 20% margin of error in regards to the purity and amount of active ingredient present in the drugs they manufacture. So if your prescription says 10 mg hydrocodone, the generic version could actually contain anywhere from 8-12 mg in each pill. Pharmaceutical companies are not required to inform us of the real amount or even provide any type of disclaimer on the label, package insert or anywhere else available to the general public for that matter. I have a sneaky suspicion that "accidentally" including the bare minimum required by law might very well be common practice for some of these companies. Not only would 20% be a pretty significant profit increase, but patients would also end up needing more for the drug to be effective. This is merely a theory of course, but it could be why your prescription seems weak to you.
Hi Uh, Why would the generics also have the numbers on them, explaining the mgs of opiate and tylenol, as in generic norco, 10/325?
Thank you,
Mac
P.S. This is so very deceptive that the FDA should (ideally) be involved.
We are paying for generics, and they are supposedly the same, yet they are not? GRRRRR!
May I ask where you got your information?
I would like to see this in writing. Can you please tell me where I can find this document?
Find out which companies are selling this medication to the Veterans Administration and stay away from them. They the least effective and usually been on the shelf for a long time and have lost some of there potency. The VA buys the stuff you would find at a garage sale an gives it to our Veterans. If your filling a prescription for this drug ask to see the bottle that the medication will be obtained from and check the expiration date and the manufactures name before buying. It's your money Insurance that is paying for it so make them show you the bottle. Another problem with weaken meds is how the vending supply company is storing the products i.e. un-climate controlled warehouses etc. Excessive heat and cold can and does affect the potency of many drugs. Likewise, you should avoid the same by NOT leaving meds in you hot/freezing vehicle and keeping them all out of direct sunlight.
Buy a plastic storage box that has a place for a lock on it and keep it with your drugs in the lower part of you refrigerator. Be sure you have it locked to prevent children and unauthorized people from acquiring the meds.
Ok lets tell the actual facts.the 20% margin is not correct . the FDA only allows a 3% margin. People who claim to notice a difference is the ones using the medication for getting high or selling them. I have many back and neck problems and alot of hardware in both my back and neck. I also take the norco 10/325 and have been for several years. I've had the name brand and every generic sold in the united states and due to me using them as prescribed and only when I have to they all work just as effectively as the other. But due to so many people abusing them and selling them in no longer allowed refills I have to see my Dr every month to get a hand written triplicate prescription . so to all of those using them as recreational drugs and using them for a source of income I personally want to thank your idiotic asses. Its like everything else in this world trash comes along and makes it hard for the honest and working man that has a legit reason for it. So thanks again to all the idiot parasites who have made it this way!!!
This is EXACTLY what my doctor told me when it comes to the different manufacturers of this medication. I have taken these for several years and I recently have begun getting the mallinckrodt (M367) and they don't work as well as the Watson brand. This so due to the manufacturer having the ability to "play with" the amount of pain reliever they use in their pills. I thought I was going crazy and it was all in my mind until I brought it up to my physician.
Uhhhhh is correct. I went to school to be a Physician's Assistant before switching majors and am also aware of the shady practices pharmaceutical companies employ to up their profit margin. Any reputable textbook on pharmacology or a search of reputable internet sites on this subject will give you the same answer.
As an industry that is supposed to enhance public health and the availability of necessary drugs of the necessary strength to the necessary people, there are many in the business who DO NOT GIVE A F*** about people. Martin Shkreli, a recently convicted felon (thank whatever higher power you believe in), is a high-profile example of this... hopefully he had to give back that Wu-Tang Clan album too.
according to the FDA web site generics only have to have 30 percent of the hydro drug in it look it up you will see what I am talking about.
This is a medication that I take and have for quite some time. It just so happens that I was prescribed the m367 recently and have indeed noticed a dramatic difference between these and the oblong yellow 3601v and many other people have also complained.
you are right draenon , the malinkrodt m367 versus the watson norco , their is a big difference in pain relief . the same goes for the generic percocet by the same two companies . i have to switch meds every 6-8 months to maintain pain relief from chronic pain i certainly noticed the difference .
Hi draenon420, I would tend to agree with your statement. My pharmacy recently changed me to the m? norco generic I can't spell it, hehe sounds like a russian generic. I always before got watson yellow norco's. They do seem to be weaker but it could be all in my head.
regards: saucerman
Hi draenon420, I would tend to agree with your statement. My pharmacy recently changed me to the m? norco generic I can't spell it, hehe sounds like a russian generic. I always before got watson yellow norco's. They do seem to be weaker but it could be all in my head.
regards: saucerman
I think it has to do with the chemicals being used and the way it is processed. The company that makes m367 probably uses cheaper chemicals therefore they are probably somewhat diluted. That would cause the drug to feel weak. Just a thought. I have no evidence to back up my claim.
Had same problem,the yellow 3601V works a lot better.Pharm.told me a lot of people have told him M367 does not worrk as well.He also stated the company that makes 3601V was sold a short time ago.I did find a drug store that still had some in stock,for now I'm OK Bruce7
I have heard from people all over the country about how one hydrocodone ten,7.5 is stronger than the other! The only thing making one pill different from the other is the amount of Tylenol in the pills..the thing that makes people feel like one pill is stronger than the other is the tens with 375mgs of Tylenol and the 7.5's with 375mgs of Tylenol are stronger name brand or generic is the hydrocodone works better when the Tylenol is not as strong then the hydrocodone works different in the body...
as long as the Tylenol is 375mgs and the hydrocodone is 10mgs or 7.5mgs.that pain pill will be stronger than the 10mg/500mg or 7.5mg/500mg.Tylenol It's not whether a pill is generic or name brand that makes it work stronger it's the ones with lower doses of Tylenol that work better in the body!I promise as long as a pill has the same mgs of Tylenol and hydrocodone it's the same pill no matter what company made it..So if you want stronger Norco, Watson, or m367,m366 get your doctor to write you the one with less Tylenol then the hydrocodone will work stronger in your system!
I have heard from people all over the country about how one hydrocodone ten,7.5 is stronger than the other! The only thing making one pill different from the other is the amount of Tylenol in the pills..the thing that makes people feel like one pill is stronger than the other is the tens with 375mgs of Tylenol and the 7.5's with 375mgs of Tylenol are stronger name brand or generic is the hydrocodone works better when the Tylenol is not as strong then the hydrocodone works different in the body...
as long as the Tylenol is 375mgs and the hydrocodone is 10mgs or 7.5mgs.that pain pill will be stronger than the 10mg/500mg or 7.5mg/500mg.Tylenol It's not whether a pill is generic or name brand that makes it work stronger it's the ones with lower doses of Tylenol that work better in the body!I promise as long as a pill has the same mgs of Tylenol and hydrocodone it's the same pill no matter what company made it..So if you want stronger Norco, Watson, or m367,m366 get your doctor to write you the one with less Tylenol then the hydrocodone will work stronger in your system!
yes,I feel the same, ,,I was taking the yellow ones, ,,and these give me heart burn, ,I am 60 years old, ,and take the little white pill norco now
I also have been changed over to the white oblong m367 from the Yellow Norco, there is a difference!! Crazy as it seems but... I was taking 1.5 pills every 6-8 hours of the Yellow tablet with great pain relief, now on the white m376 my pain returns in less then 4 -5 hours, was sleeping all night and now I'm not, was working out at the gym and now I'm in pain ... can you still get the Yellow Norco ?
I found a few Yellow pills from a old script took them and saw there was a difference!!!
Where ever the company of the M376 is getting there ingredients they better revisit the supplier they are buying substandard ingredients they are getting ripped off!!! That's my opinion !!!
Actually, the pill itself isnt week,or weak lol it is the strongest of this particular type of the hydrocodone family, so it would actually be a mistake to say that it was weak. \\
ocron///B.P.
I just took it for the first time it has not done any affect on my pain. How's that?
I am a pharmacist first off. A LOT of people think that the brand, color, size and numbers matter on the pill. It DOES NOT. ALL Norcos whether brand_name or generic have the same amount of the drug. Every manufacturer of the drug has different sizes, color and numbers on them. A lot of people want the brand_name because they think that it works "better" or that it is "stronger". Which is NOT true. Again, they have the same amount of ingredients, just different manufacturers. Hope this helps. :)
I know that most health professionals feel the same way about name brands and generics however, in my personal experience I've found various medications that do work better than generic. For instance, Ventolin is the same exact as Proair and Ventolin does work better. I was in school at the same time and just happened to be learning the differences, if any, in the generics and name brands. Another example is Tylenol 3 (namebrand). That medication doesn't give me an allergic reaction but the generic does. Why? BECAUSE THE GOVERNING LAWS THAT SAY GENERICS ARE THE SAME AS NAME BRANDS AREN'T VERIFIED TO BE THE SAME INGREDIENTS.
I had to take my grandmother in for pnuemonia and they gave her ProAir. It didn't help her. So I had to go back to ER to ask them to give her some Ventolin instead. Of course Doctor's generally don't like to be told they're wrong and even got a bit of attitude regarding the situation.
So i patiently waited for the respiratory therapist to come in to administer a nebulizing breathing treatment and while Doc was in room I asked her if there is a difference between proair and ventolin and viola! She said yes there is. Even though they were the exact strength, dose, ingredients.
I'm not sure about the other meds but I do know their is a difference in the name brand/generics listed above.
If I'm not mistaken, generics do contain the identical active chemicals. This however does not make generics the same as the name brands. If the binders are different then the active chemicals will hit a person differently. Opioids in particular are super sensitive to this detail, after all, there are tons and tons of opioids on the market, however it is the binders that make them act differently in many many cases. Oxycotin is a great example. If the chemicals in a norco are released too slowly, being a med that only works for 4 to 6 hours will make it not work. A much larger dose would then be needed taken at less frequent intervals. The size, shape, and color does make a difference as it's the binders that often determine the action as well as how well a drug works.
Hope that this is of some help!
Jeff K
For sjmlrs13
Stick to counting pills. Your advice on generics is just plain wrong.
You may be right and I may be wrong. What you do when in disagreement is say why, not just your wrong. Might as well add on name calling while your at it as that would be just as helpful. I gave a very detailed account as to the effects that simple binding material can have on medications. Now your turn, tell me why I'm incorrect on my understanding and actualy contribute in an adult conversation.
The fact of it is is that my comment is speculation, not true fact. A pharmasist actually knows quite a bit more about this topic than I do, as a result is a very valued member on drugs.com. Any and all comments should be "I agree cause xyz" or "I disagree cause xyz" not "your stupid". I don't care who agrees with me or disagrees, but the simple fact of it remains that this is suppose to be a support forum, not a rip down on each other. I don't know what the deal is with this question in particular, but it seems to have generated a lot of unnecessary unhelpful comments. In the future lets agree to be more civil, understand that each person posts on their own time with good will, and that disagreement is actually a good thing. It means that there is something to be learned.
The conversation is about generic Norco 10/325. I have been on this for 5 years and have had all of the different generic brands but one, M367 until last month. With all of the generics my dosage is 1 every four hours. When CVS changed to M367 last month I had to take 3 at a time to get one or two hours of relief and had to wait between one and two hours for it to start working. I changed to another pharmacy and was told by the new guy that he was aware that M367 was crap and that he would never stock it. He carries 3601V and what do you know, it works like its supposed to. So its not in anybodies head why M367 doesn't work or that it is the same as all the other generics. M367 is a junk product that CVS gets cheap and the people that need pain relief are being cheated for profit. Per my new pharmacist and my own common sense.
This response was interesting as well as very informative. It was not my intention to come off harsh as I may have, however I sincerely hope that you understand my previous point. I've seen to many leave this site do to hurt feelings, many members who have left for this reason had been of extreme help for many. Instead of throwing out verbal punches, a simple story as you have told tells so much more and also helps so many that are in search of information.
Enough of talk on that and back onto the chemistry of medications. Norco as most of us know is a very sort acting opioid, making for any sustained release to dramatically hinder its performance. I personally take methadone for chronic pain, the exact opposite when talking about a medications half life. I have never noticed any difference between the generic varieties of methadone, however did prior to its use when I was on norco.
I bet that not only do the generic varieties of norco very in strength, but same for any short acting medication such as ritalin. I'm also willing to make a bet that taking a less effective norco cut up into quarters would solve the problem, although would first check with... yes, a pharmasist sp? before doing so. It might help release the medication much quicker. Obviously medications such as oxycotin has killed many who have done this sort of thing, however medications that are not designed to be a day long released would prove to be much more effective if the body has trouble breaking the tablet down. My wording here is off but I hope that you follow.
This once again could be fatal if done to the wrong medication so it is very important that a professional be consulted first. Xanax is another short acting med that seems to very more so than does a longer acting med like klonopin. This is a theory, however I would be willing to bet money that this is the primary cause to medications problem when sold as generic.
Actually generics are typically weaker.
Brand name medications are allowed a 10% variance in their formulation, so a 10/325 would realistically be 9-11mg of hydrochodone. Where as the generic is allowed a 20% variance meaning the same pill could be 8-12mg. And since generics lean towards the cheap side you can safely assume it will be 8mg while the brand name will lean towards 11mg to bolster their sales.
And any pharmacist should be critically aware of this fact, and the fact it can cripple a medications effectiveness.
Ok everyone calm down.. The pharmacist is correct but so are you guys. And I will explain .. I have worked for doctors all my life.. And here is the deal.. Real vs generic.. They do have the same active ingredient but its the other ingredients that your body breaks down differently which causes a different effect.. Everyone's body mitabilizes things differently!! Some people can take one or the other with the same effect some people can not.. I know this for a fact do to my own child has what's call an absorption issue.. As a child she took 2 DTP injections but when it came to round 3 the doctor had purchased a cheaper version and my little child ended up in a coma for 3 days at the local ICU.. She can take a name brand Tylenol and just one will help a headache or body ache but if I buy the store brand she has to take up to 3. And it's not that the meds are any weaker..
They are not!! She just happens to be one of the people who's body can't metabolize the inactive ingredients in the cheaper version so the active ingredient can work!!! So if u honestly feel the genetics are not working for you tell your doctor they will mark where you only get name brand you just have to pay the price. This absorption thing is not true for everyone .. But makes a lot of since now that we have lived with it for 20 years.
OK, then my question is I've been taking the White Watson/853 imprint Pills which are the 10 X325 and they have been working Great for me, this last refill about a week ago the pharmacy filled my script with a yellow oval pill with 3601/a big "V" on them and they have no affect on me or little if any and I have try taking two, and three pills at a time to trying get some pain relief with no luck. The Watson brand works very well on my pain relief and has worked up until about a week ago when I ran out and had I have a refill by the pharmacy and received these yellow, oval, different pills and now seeing how these Yellow pills with 3601/V work, or should I say don't work at all. Can somebody tell me why that is if it's supposed to be the exact same medication just a different manufacturer/brand why is there such a drastic change in results?
I do not wish pain on my worst enemy,as I live with it daily.I have degenerative bone disease,several bulging disc,candidate for duel hip,and left knee total replacement,etc.And believe me,there IS a difference in the strength of medication (Even though it's SUPPOSED to be the SAME strength) regardless to WHAT a pharmacist may tell you.I've even had doctors tell me there is,due to the compound make up of a medication.To the pharmacist that responded to this,I'm willing to go out on a limb,and guess that you have never had to take these meds,and that's a good thing,for you.But please stop saying there's no difference,when I,and MANY others KNOW there is.It's really sad to know that we're told,and led to believe their the same in how well they work.Because ANYONE whose unfortunate enough to have to take them,knows that isn't true!
I do not wish pain on my worst enemy,as I live with it daily.I have degenerative bone disease,several bulging disc,candidate for duel hip,and left knee total replacement,etc.And believe me,there IS a difference in the strength of medication (Even though it's SUPPOSED to be the SAME strength) regardless to WHAT a pharmacist may tell you.I've even had doctors tell me there is,due to the compound make up of a medication.To the pharmacist that responded to this,I'm willing to go out on a limb,and guess that you have never had to take these meds,and that's a good thing,for you.But please stop saying there's no difference,when I,and MANY others KNOW there is.It's really sad to know that we're told,and led to believe their the same in how well they work.Because ANYONE whose unfortunate enough to have to take them,knows that isn't true!
What can you switch to if you have been taking hydrocodone for a ling time? I have severe chronic back, hips, legs, and knee pain.
if you are wanting to feel high then your having a problem this med ifor people in reAL PAIN GET HELP WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES
You are wrong they are weaker.
Please research.
You are a pharmacist that’s great so question since you say that they are all the same. I have taken Watson, Vintage and as of Friday the 7th of September M367 I was in pain all day I was almost in tears at work. I get home I still have some Watson left I take one and I’m bout 30 to 40 minutes my pain is at a 3 to a 4 that is manageable. And today same thing I tough it out all day almost in tears I get home and I try the M367 1 and a half the pain does not go away, I’m wait and wait so I take a Watson and same thing 30 to 40 minutes pain is manageable I can move my neck and doesn’t bother me. So I know you are s pharmacist but you really aren’t 100% sure what the process is and how they (M367)are it. I promise you there is a difference, not sayin that they don’t all have the same amount of each active ingredient but there is something different they do.
So my question Monday I was going to go back to my Pharmacy since she told me they had the white ones right now and since I had been getting the white Watson’s I didn’t really think anything of it, so I just thought it was still Watson wil I be able to give them back and get my paper and go somewhere else or will I need to go to dr again and let them k ow? What is protocol on something like that?
They are not the same, true the main chemistry is equivalent it's the others that
make a difference towards your body responses to side effects. A brand name may add chemistry to reducing or eliminating side effects. They may even enhance the main chemistry. The difference is with Brand you may have an adverse reaction and with generic you will have a side effect.
I am a chronic pain patient and can tell you there is a huge difference between manufacturers. Qualitest brand is what i prefer as i get good relief from it. Mallinckrodt is horrible. Pain relief lasts less than 2 hours and then i get nausea and like restless legs. I just started taking Amneal brand and the quality of these seems to be right up there with qualitest. Just at my pharmacy there are over 25 different people who specify they want the qualitest and i have been sent to some of their other locations when they were out and they said the same that anyone who has been on pain meds for any time do not get relief from the Mallinckrodt brand. Now whether that is a difference in compounding and the variances allowed or the use of different fillers the absorption and effectiveness of the different brands can be much different. Just like my son when little was only able to take brand name Proventil.
The delivery system at that time of how the generic worked caused him issues and actually caused his asthma to be worse. Go back to brand name proventil and great results. We had to argue over and over with pharmacists about this and then a few years into it they admitted that alot of people had issues and changed the delivery of the product on the generic and it then worked fine. So i believe this person got a generic brand probably Mallinckrodt and is not seeing proper pain relief from it.
Ok pharmacists how can consumers go about complaining of the difference in relief from this manufacturer? Im sure people getting this for first time just think theyre getting the relief from it that they are supposed to but they are not. So how do we go about having them change their formula?
i believe that if it is weak for you, you may be developing a tolerance to it.
good point, could very well be if you've taken the drug before on a semi regular basis...
What if you have never taken it and took it for the first time and it does do an effect?
Oxyaaron, have you read my comment above? If not, please do. Everyone develops some tolerance to their pain meds, dosages are adjusted, nonnarcotic meds & other therapies are used on conjuction to formulate a somewhat effective treatment which, due to tolerance and advancing condition, must be tweaked occasionally. This is gradual. You don't go from one refill working to the next doing what this shabbily formulated med did to me! I am back on a better version of generic and happily, after a few days of recovery from the damage that trash did to me I am back to where I was before I was given m367. BTW, no one has been able to answer my question as to why their 5/325 is stamped with m365 while the allegedly formulated 10/325 is stamped m367. Why not m3610? There is room on the tab. Hmmmm.
People! Read my experience provided above before commenting. Fellow chronic painers who not only have to live in agony on a daily basis, but also have to endure the comments & prejudices of those who haven't walked a mile in your shoes & have no knowledge other than what they parrot from a textbook or the drug manufacturers' inserts. If modern medicine truly understood chronic pain, like fibromyalgia and other such syndromes, they could cure us instead of putting bandaides on us. Therefore, trust yourselves. If your next refill is this drug, which doesn't work for you, don't listen to the people spewing the standard fare of the medical zombies, insist all your healthcare providers place it in your records that you had an adverse reaction to this med & your scripts should be written specifying not this manufacturer. I had no idea & never had a problem with a generic. I didnt find out the overwhelming numbers of people who have experienced the same as I until I had been bedridden for days & in desperation went seeking answers online. Yes, there are the sprinkling of complaints for other pain meds but the masses who have complained about THIS ONE cannot continue to be ignored. Something is wrong with this formulation when it comes to those with chronic pain !
I may be mistaken but I think that it is ok to agree with each other as well as disagree. What is your intention with such a comment?
I just want you to read my original comment and the experience I had. Additionally, I wanted to raise awareness on how hurtful it is to have others just blow us off by saying it's all in our head or we or developing a tolerance or quote from a drug reference. All chronic pain sufferers get a bad rap due to the bad apples out there that are trying to game the system and helping to turn our ED's into overcrowded frustrating and dangerous places, but the majority of us are good people just trying to be as productive as we have always been and our body may hurt so bad that at times we cannot get out of our beds but we still have a brain and we know when something is bad for us. I'm just frustrated with the dismissive comments.
It is not logical or normal to go from a medication working well for you and then the next refill being this time the m367 instead of the other generic that was doing fine is given to you and you are in bed until another manufacturer from a different pharmacy is found and prescribed. If you will read what happened to me and how I had to process through it you will see I also negate another flippant hurtful comment that it is all in my head, I saw I was getting a different manufacturer and so I decided it wouldn't work... not. Yes, we can agree to disagree but my point in posting is that those who do not have to live like us do not seem to understand we are real good and honest people with brains, someone's mother, wife, grandmother, etc.(BTW it is not just the patient that suffers when they have chronic pain, so do their loved ones) and the fact that so many of us are complaining about one particular formulation should give pause to all because you may be fine now but that might not be the case next year. I was once quite athletic and in the peak of health when I was stricken with this mess. Something is wrong and it should be investigated not dismissed, so even more people who live in constant pain are subjected to this formulation until finally someone decides this is a credible event that should be investigated. By the way, that brings up another purpose for my posts, to educate the victims on here. You do have rights. In addition to requesting you all have all your healthcare providers place a note in your chart in the allergy section (no, I know this is not an allergy but it is where providers go in a record to look for such information regarding allergies, and other adverse reactions) you should go to the FDA Medwatch website and report your experience. I did and you can too. Agreeing to disagree will not help those of us who have already been hurt by this formulation and must live in fear that all the pharmacies will go to it eventually because it must be cheaper. The best thing we can do is complain to FDA until we are heard. You can also ask your physician if he would be willing to report your event as well. My pain management doctor has seen this enough in his practice that he knows something is wrong and is not only willing to put it in his patient's records but to report to FDA. Obviously getting the story out on here is not really getting it heard, but I do thank you, even those who do not agree or believe me for at least having the decency to read my own horrible experience. My purpose for even commenting here as I seldom do this sort of thing (just too busy and have a full life) was truly to speak to those of you on this page who have expressed a knowledge that something isn't right with this formulation. Do not get discouraged by the dismissive comments. If your experience was anything like mine, you did not develop a tolerance (that is from my physician, people), it wasn't in your mind (again from my physician), there is a certain patient population with chronic pain syndrome that does not do well with this formulation (again from my physician). So don't get discouraged. Do something to protect yourself and others. Report it to your doctor and the FDA. Those who don't like what I have to say will be happy to know I'm done and won't be back. I did what I came to do and hopefully gave the people I was really speaking to some hope and direction. Thanks and Best Regards to all of you on this board:)
You have many good points, and really everyone who posted comments are doing so with the intention to help. I also suffer from chronic pain and am all to familiar with the stigma attached. In fact one of the primary reasons for me being let go was due to my boss finding out that I suffered from what she only saw as a weakness. I was not let go due to performance or really any other factor than that. It sucks.
I think that you would be surprised at the number of people on this site who also have chronic pain and speak from experience. Tolerance is a very real issue when utilizing Opioid type medications and is a detail that I am familiar with.
I guess that all that I'm really saying is that to disagree is fine and encouraged. To tell someone that they are wrong and have no experience with the topic is simply not helpful for anyone. This if nothing else only leads to people being afraid to post helpful suggestions.
My intentions are only that of concern, especially when a comment has been made in such a demeaning way. I'm sure that this was not what you intended, however for me it felt that way.
Thank you for sharing your experiences as the more that is shared, the better. This after all is a community of caring people who don't have to post a thing but do so out of concern and love.
I hope that you understand me here, and should you disagree with what I have said, please go ahead and mark my comment with a negative. I could care less about the point system however do care about my friends who have been there for me.
Sincerely
Jeff K
jk13- I said I wouldn't come back on here but I just read your comments about losing your job & my heart goes out to you because it didn't have to happen & "there by the grace of God go I". I hope you have found a better situation but I want to assure you know you have rights about this too so I will share my very recent experiece for your benefit & if you have since found this out, perhaps others will benefit.
I found myself missing a lot of work because it has been a rough winter and I was sensing I might be on the bubble at work. Additionally, I have a difficult commute & it was taking 5 agonizing hours or more to get to work for a job that can be done at home. After a couple of years I knew I was almost to my end. So I consulted an Employment Attorney. He told me that I immediately needed to wrap the ADA LAW (American Disability Act) around me and protect myself.
It was hard to admit my disability after years of fighting it but it was time. He told me to declare myself as disabled and demand a reasonable accommodation for it. I demanded to work from home. I have to say I am blessed because I never realized what a compassionate employer I have especially for a company that employs thousands because when I presented in our HR dept. things started happening very fast. I filled out a couple of forms, got a letter from my pain management MD & within a day I was approved for FMLA 480 hours off a year for my condition as needed & in less than a month, a committee met & I was granted my accommodation! Full time work from home! It has been a godsend & none of it required getting approved as disabled by any government entity since I was not asking for benefits, just the right to work in a way that was better for my condition.
What would my recourse have been had I not been approved? To sue for discrimination. Not something I wanted to do but I knew my accommodation was reasonable. Thank goodness my employer agreed.
I hope sharing this will help others. I had no idea all that was available to me until I asked. I just wished I had asked sooner:)
Thank you so much for your response, really, it means a lot to me. I was semi aware of what you had described however didn't act as I should have. After being let go due to company "restructuring" I seriously gave it a lot of thought to the possibility of suing. Having not signed the agreement of separation made the company well beyond nervous as I had the rare case of proof, emails printed out backing up claims of not "restructuring" but discrimination.
After the company became aware that I had no intention on signing the paperwork agreeing to the separation, it was made clear to me that 1 company restructuring would be changed to steeling and that 2 I would have a very hard time finding employment. I work in a very narrow tight nit field in which being placed in the black book was a reality.
While working as a designer of products for the home is a lot of fun, it also means that in a down market when no one is spending money is about the worse field to be involved with. I now have been able to add to the range of home products into fashion accessories.
If I had sued my future employment would have been bleak. Unfortunately this black mail gave me no real choice but to sign the paperwork. Karma does however have a way of correcting these issues. The company ever since letting me go has almost put them out of business. I honestly do not mean to brag, but I had helped place this business in front of their competition via sending china actual molds to cast from, addressing trends as well as the market, and many other details not previously addressed.
I now run my own small design studio @ www.je ffr eykret chmerd esign.com
I'd rather not have this post link directly to my business, thus the random spaces that have been added. There are still many who see chronic pain as nothing more than a bunch of weaklings who just want drugs as we all know to well.
Once again thank you for your kind response!
Jeff K
This came from an unknown source and I believe the pills were counterfeit. I've since refilled my Rx and they work just fine.
Nope, that's not it; I've used the same medication for about 15 years without developing a significant tolerance to it. I do know that if it says 10/325 it should all be the same. However, the M-367 made by Malinkrodt simply does not do the same job as the Watson pills of the exact same dosage. (In theory) I have seen other posts about this, one saying that some offshore companies do not hold to the same rigid purity quality control standards as others, and that some generics may be off up to 20%
Tylenol and Hydrocodone potentiate each other a bit, however, the combo of the two is terrible for the liver, therefore the reason as to why Norco is becoming more commonly used vs. Vicodin. The low amount of Tylenol may be what is making the drug feel weaker than what you expected. Also, Hydrocodone realistically is one of the weaker Opioids, and depending on what you're comparing it to, could also be a reason. If it is the main brand vs. generic that is weak, then I don't know...
Jeff K
Hey rbob,
Hydrocodone 10/325 (norco m 367) has the highest amount of pain killer opiate of the hydrocodones available. So your question as to why norco m367 (hydrocodone 10/325) is so weak doesn't quite make sense to me. Are you wondering whether the generic is weaker than the brand? I think you will find they are very comparable for this particular med.
Hope this helps,
Laurie
Hey rbob,
probably if hydrocodone 10/325 (norcom367) does not work then the brand name would probably not work either, if you have been taking this for an extended period of time it may not be working any more. How long have you been taking this particular medication?
RBob: Many physicians prescribe Norco 10/325 for long-term pain patients, instead of Lortab/Vicodin/hydrocodone, because there is less APAP or Tylenol (acetaminaphen) in the Norco. But, currently being prescribed Norco & receiving a wide array of pain relievers, including: M367 (white oblong), and V 3601 (yellow oblong), both containing 325 mg acetaminaphen, IP 119 (white oblong), containing 500 mg acetaminaphen & M361 (white oblong), containing 650 mg of acetaminaphen, I always examine the pills and check them on Pill Identifier so I know the amount of acetaminaphen in the medication. I ADVISE YOU TO DO THE SAME RESEARCH IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS ABOUT YOUR MEDICATION. Obviously, because there are different amounts of acetaminaphen in the various medications, they can react differently from each other and react differently from individual to individual. I have noticed differences, too; you are not crazy or imagining things. I hope this is helpful. Take care, KC
It's like comparing Reebok to Nike. They are both available in size ten some just fit better than others, depending on the person. I've had many broken bones and two steel plates in my face. They are the same dose. It's simply a mental difference due to what others have told u.
Wow, I'm shocked at how flippant some of these comments (not just under this original comment but others below) are. "It's all in your head" or "they just don't work for you anymore" makes me absolutely furious. In addition to being a healthcare professional of over 30 years I have suffered with chronic pain for many years and have taken other versions of the Watson (yellow oblong pill) over several years without difficulty. Fortunately, during warm weather I can wean down to a lower dose and this past summer got completely off with the help of regular yoga practice. I have NEVER had a problem taking generics and never thought it was an issue with me so nix the its "all in your head" comments. I had to go back on the pain med last fall and have been given the Watson brand all year. I had never had this M367 pill until last week.
The effect on my pain (I usually stay at a Level 5 this time of year with the help of this drug in combination with a few others prescribed by my pain management MD) was almost immediate but since I don't take issue with changes in brands it took me 4 days of intractable pain at a level 10 at least and missing two days of work to finally make a correlation. So don't tell someone it is all in the head or they have developed a tolerance. Of course long term use will require more per day due to tolerance but in combination with other meds to assist with effectiveness they often can work for many years or indefinately. Rule of thumb should be if the med has been working for you in another brand it is NOT a tolerance issue. There is only one explanation for what happened to me and it was the change from the Watson to M367. By the way, does anyone know why the 5/325 have the numbers M365 on the tablet but the one with the alleged dosage of 10/325 is stamped M367? Hmmmm... There is a dose of 7.5/325 that exists. What is it stamped and why wouldn't a genuine 10/325 be stamped M3610? There is enough room on the tablet for M3610.. Then there are all the complaints not only on the Internet but when I called my CVS to inquire (not because of the brand change so again, not in my head) but because after 4 days I finally really looked at the tab and I thought they had gotten the dosage wrong since the pill is stamped M367. They wouldn't tell me if they were getting complaints but they immediately offered up a different brand. Unfortunately, my carrier will only pay for one fill a month so I am out $150 and 2 days pay just so someone else could be cavalier with a severely ill patient's lifeline med to save a buck. I too can read the pharmaceutical literature but people, if you knew what I know you'd know you can't believe everything you read. FDA does allow for wiggle room on this issue and the shear numbers of people who are complaining about the M367, something I didn't find out until after my little jaunt through hell and back due to this poorly formulated med, tells me there is a REAL PROBLEM with this brand. People are different and there may be chronic painers out there that do fine on the M367 but I suspect if a true unbiased pole could be done (dream on) the number of people who do not do well on this manufacturer's version would be statistically significant. So rbob, so let the naysayers sway you into believing it is all in your mind or this medication is no longer effective for you. If you were doing well on a different brand it is NOT in your head and it has NOT become ineffective for you. Change back to a manufacturer you know works for you.
Sorry guys if this first post for me is so impassioned, I'm usually pretty easy going but what I have experienced since 1/31/13 (still waiting on my new med as they are having to get it in stock) has been horrible, expensive and just plain the wrong thing to do to anyone enduring a life of chronic pain but trying hard to live normally and not be a burden to family. We were all scared that something new had developed in my disease process! That is just plain cruel!
I have had to use generic Norco for 5 years and recently the pharmacy switched to m 367. I had to take 3 of the m367 at a time to relieve the pain that the other generics handled with one. So I have a feeling your a seller and not a taker. m367 is trash that the V.A. gives out.
Don
Are you calling me a seller? I happen to be a long time user of medications for chronic pain and resent being called a seller.
I have had to use generic Norco for 5 years and recently the pharmacy switched to m 367. I had to take 3 of the m367 at a time to relieve the pain that the other generics handled with one. So I have a feeling your a seller and not a taker. m367 is trash that the V.A. gives out.
Don
How do you know it has in it what it says? Have you had it tested by an objective lab or are you just reading the drug insert or something similar? What if it is not the active ingtediemts that are the problem but actually something they are using for an inert ingredient that blocks the effectiveness of the active ingredients for people with chronic pain syndromes such as fibromyalgia? Don't dismiss this and belittle those who suffered from this med. It is that attitide that adds to our suffering and gives this manufacturer carte blanche to ignore the masses who are complaining about their experience! If you haven't read mine, I hope you will read my very first entry. I am my pain management MD's star patient. I use yoga to help manage my pain as well as during extended periods of good weather I titrate down on my meds & this last summer was able to get off almost everything until the weather got cold again.
I am an RN with 35 years experince, I do not have an addictive personality and am proactively trying to keep my life as normal as possible though my pain is almost as bad as it gets. I am respected by my peers, family & friemds. I will not be dismissed by anyone. There is something wrong with this formulation when used on most patients suffering from a chronic pain syndrome of some type!
Laurie
In your first posting you don't identify yourself as a qualified user of 10/325 so all I could conclude is that you were trying to protect M367 for some reason. If you have had to take M367 after taking other generic 10/325 and could not tell there is a great lacking in pain relief god bless you. For the other thousands of us that happened upon this m367 crap I hope they don't make the mistake again. Bonelli
I have noticed the same problem with the m367, and have never been given an answer other than it just must be me, or that it doesn't make sense. With so many people noticing the same thing, what is really going on? I actually had a pharmacist tell me that i may have gotten a bad batch. Does that really happen?
10/325 is not the strongest 10/500 is sp that maybe why you feel they're weaker.
I have found that different generic brands have different effects. Watson Norco has worked best for me. Some other brands seem to be more intoxicating with less pain relief.
My pain management doctor recommends that I take my first dose when I wake. Her opinion is that if you wait for pain to get bad and then medicate that the medication is not as effective.
Just like any other drugs the more you take them the more tolerance your body has to them. It doesn't matter whether the pill is name brand or generic, the chemical makeup for the active ingredients is exactly the same, therefore your question has baffled me tremendously. Perhaps you ought to ask your doctor about changing to another drug for awhile and let your body neutralize of the drug to regain full effectiveness down the road. Other than that I have no other information or advice to give at the moment.
The name brand I think is time release and the generic isn't just my thought be cuz the generic are soft and not as compressed as the name brand
I've experienced the same problems with various pain medication. I find the M367 feels weaker versus Watson or say yellow vicodin. Some people say no different but I disagree.
it seems to be weaker for me too, and gives me heart burn now, ,
I agree
I am a Doctor with 2 masters and a PhD , it's the same amount in a generic or name brand, trust me. Hope this helped.
Yes they are weaker . Anything to save a buck.
There most certainly is a difference. I have been taking this exact drug for some time. I have noticed the pills that have only m367 and nothing on the other side are considerably weaker. The best pill is white with m367 one side and 10 325 on the other. Don't be fooled Wal Mart and some local pharmacies do this. I just chalk it up to profit. The bottom line!!!
Laurie it's not that it is weak it's the process in which they make makes it not get in your system correctly. Something to do with the compression of the pill. Also no it's not that a tolerance has been built up . That would be to easy to figure out. This has all been checked correctly. It's in the making of the pill the compression in the process. Interesting. More and more complaints are coming out.
I see. Very interesting.
So what strength of Norco is the strongest does 325mg/10mg or the 525 mg, norco,
Yes, Laurie. M367 are the strongest that are prescribed to you. They are not weak. If they seem weak, or don't work on the patient, then they have either developed an immunity to them, or another nsaid is needed for the pain they are experiencing.
I am a health professional that was told long ago the difference between brands drugs and generic drugs is the FDA regulation. I don't rem the exact percentage, but for example only brand drugs are required to have a narrow allowance of actual effectiveness in each pill. But generic brands are are allowed at least double to triple the allowance which allows them to make the drug cheaper. Therefore, each manufacturing company may produce at different levels of efficiency. My personal opinion is yes, there may be bad batches... Of course all people react differently to meds but the truth is there may is a difference in manufacturers... Unfortunately insurance companies make it almost impossible to be prescribed brand drugs, and pharmacies are in control of which generic companies we use. So we are either fortunate enough to have quality meds or unfortunate and receive poor quality. I hope if enough consumers complain, maybe the quality will improve.
I hope this helps to answer the confusion and realize everyone has a legitimate complaint and understand that you now your own body. Best of luck!
i have been on this medicine for a long time and probably for the rest of my life because of a really severe permanent injury.i have had every brand of this medicine all kinds of different makers etc i will tell people honestly there has been no difference in how it works for the pain.generic and name brand have the same amount of narcotic etc so when people say they are not the same etc its not true
Hi Laurie,
To your answer for rbob, I have been on hydrocodone for a little over a year Vintage and Watson have been what I’ve always gotten, Friday my Pharmacy told me they were on back order and only had the (white pills) well my Watson’s were white so I didn’t think noting of it. I get home and get ready for work the pills are M367s I don’t realky know much about pills I do know I’m in pain yesterday and today all day till I got home last night and I still had my Watson white pill and took one, pain alleviated within 40 minutes cause the pain was so severe. And again today I’m taking the M367 with no success of relief, I finally took a Watson brand and once again pain alleviated.
So I don’t know what is up with the M367s but they do not work on me and I’m worried bout that because I am goin back to my Pharmacy Monday to voice my opinion and in hopes they can take them back give me my prescription slip and I go where they have Watson or Vintage. Thanks for reading.
Also I have tried to look up but I am not that great at surfing the web with success in finding the ingredients and the verses each brand and or the process of each. If you know I would love a link.
M367 are by mallinckrodt, a very sketchy company that is always in trouble with the FDA for violations. Second company's can have Up to 20% less or 25% of an active ingredient. Hence some medications feeling stronger than others. One norco might have Up to 12.5 mg while a company like tris and mallinckrodt might only have 8mg and still be considered equivalent.
Related topics
Further information
- Norco uses and safety info
- Norco prescribing info & package insert (for Health Professionals)
- Side effects of Norco (detailed)
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